#121 Website Images & SEO, Backward Design, and Essential Tools

Jonny Ross

-: 00:22

Welcome. Thanks for joining. I'm here with my co-host, Pascal. You all right, Pascal?

Pascal Fintoni

-: 00:29

I'm very well. Do you know, I do love this intro. Sometimes we should have it a bit longer, but that's not fair on our viewers and listeners. So welcome, everyone, again.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 00:30

Thank you for your support.

Jonny Ross

-: 00:55

Thanks for joining us, whether you are live with us right now or perhaps you are listening to the replay as a podcast. This is the 90-Day Website Mastery Podcast, the perfect companion to our 90-Day Website Mastery Programmer and our recently published book, Web Proud. This is our 41st episode. We're excited to bring you even more valuable insights and practical advice to help you enhance your website's performance.

Jonny Ross

-: 01:08

Join us as we explore strategies to make your website work harder for you, reigniting your pride in your online presence. We want you to feel proud of your website. It's as simple as that. We have four segments in each episode.

Jonny Ross

-: 01:28

We have the you ask, we answer. We have website stories. We have the website engine room, and of course we finish with the website call to action in every episode where we give you one change or adjustment that you should be making to your website right now as a website content creator or website manager, perhaps a business owner. We want to help you feel proud of your website.

Jonny Ross

-: 01:32

So listen, let's get started with our first segment, the You Ask, We Answer.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 01:58

Well, thank you again for this superb intro, Jonny. I'm glad you can remember all the information you have to share before we start the show. But in You Ask, We Answer, usually you and I choose a question that perhaps we're asked during an event that we hosted or maybe during a training session. And this one came from one of my trainees where they were looking at refreshing their website for 2025.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 02:18

And this is literally word for word what she shared with me. I have just been told that the images on my website are not optimized. I think I know what I need to do, but how would you structure the final name, the alt tags, and any other fields for good SEO? What say you, Johnny Ross?

Jonny Ross

-: 02:28

Yeah well I mean it's amazing isn't it that we're still getting asked this question. You know image optimization, I expect we've both been doing this for well probably 25

Pascal Fintoni

-: 02:29

years if

Jonny Ross

-: 02:59

not more and actually we delivered a website only last week. I mean that's not new you know we deliver websites all the time but there was one in particular last week And we'd sort of shown the client how to upload images, et cetera. And I was looking at it the other day, and they've uploaded images that are 14 meg. It's like the size of these files are huge.

Jonny Ross

-: 03:13

And that's like a home page image, a service page image. They're all like 14, 15 meg. So in the green room, actually, I was saying, are we really going to cover image optimization? And you said, well, actually, someone did ask me this last week.

Jonny Ross

-: 03:23

And you made me reflect. And I'm thinking, actually, I've got a client who's uploading 14 meg. If you're listening, by the way, I do apologize. But, but there

Pascal Fintoni

-: 03:41

we go. If I do jump in there, you know, actually, what when they think that, you know, you can upload 4k videos on YouTube, you can stream an entire trilogy on Netflix, and so on within seconds. So I have some sympathy with it. And maybe actually, what our clients are saying is that it is time for website to move on with the times a little bit.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 04:10

But for now, we're stuck with having to compress the file size of our images, you can tell us how you recommend people do so. And then in the case of my client, we had image1.jpg, image2.jpg all over the site. And of course, if you use the concept of the Google CV that you and I used during the workshops, you do want to name your photos, or even videos for that matter, PDFs and more, correctly. Over to you, what do you normally go through with your clients?

Jonny Ross

-: 04:41

Well, yeah, this was the point that not only was the image size huge, but they were still the iStockNumber.jpg. So they bought these images, they downloaded the highest res possible, and they were named iStock123, whatever it was, .jpg. So yes, optimization, all about optimization. Listen, I mean, the obvious thing is if you want to get into Google Images, which does drive a huge amount of traffic, and all of this reflects on the website and it helps give context to the website, helps Google understand more about what page is about, you need

Jonny Ross

-: 05:10

to really help Google understand what that image is about. Now of course it can look at the image using AI and understand the image, but let's help it with some keywords as well, let's name the image, let's make it relevant, let's not stuff the keywords into that file name, but let's make it really relevant to that service page or the case study or the product page, whatever it might be, So it's all about image compression, which we're going to talk about a bit later in the show anyway. But the main thing from an SEO point of view is naming it correctly and using alt tags.

Jonny Ross

-: 05:34

So that's alternative tags so that when a screen reader is looking at the image, it can read out the alternative words to describe that image. So if you've got someone that's visually impaired looking at a website, they can get a description of the image instead of having to not be able to understand what that image is about. And that helps bring the context to the search engines as well. So good optimization, change the file names, use alt tags, and image

Pascal Fintoni

-: 05:44

compression. So I've got a bit of a formula to help my clients. And people can use an Excel spreadsheet. So the idea being, don't do it almost as you upload the image.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 06:04

Prep. If you have 10, 20, 30 images, just work through the file names and the alt tags in advance. And then you can just do a copy and paste on your CMS. At time to say minimum what you want to do to go for Google images and be part of your Google CV and particularly keen as well on the AI summaries as well and people putting things on Pinterest and whatnot.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 06:21

I always say another file should include what is it and who is it from. So you can bring your brand name, your individual's name as well. So if you work on personal brand, we have a photo. of you at an event, you could mention the event first and then mention your name.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 06:28

So what is it and who is it from is usually a bit of a formula that I use with my clients. I like it. I like that. That's very clever

Jonny Ross

-: 06:37

indeed. I'm busy saying sort of make it relevant. But as always, you've got a nice little format to follow, a nice little template. And I like that a lot.

Jonny Ross

-: 06:49

So there's some good advice. So yeah, optimize your images from an SEO point of view. Think about don't just upload them with the 123.jpg. Let's move on to our second segment, which is website stories.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 07:21

Now for episode 41, I've gone for a video and I had to go back to Whiteboard Fridays, our favorite series from Moz.com. I mean, honestly, I just love the way they do it. And everyone, it's a wonderful lesson as well in simple content marketing that really pays off. So the idea being that you have an expert talking about a subject, typically SEO, content marketing, and other forms of website experience.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 07:43

And what they do is literally they've written and jotted down some thoughts on a whiteboard, and they talk you through it. And we have the chance there to have a lady called Perna Virjish. She's the principal consultant and global program manager at LinkedIn. So what is interesting, Johnny, she's bringing her kind of lead generation, commercial aspects, personal branding into the world of SEO.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 08:11

And she put together a presentation called how to create high impact content using a backward design. Quite an intriguing title, and you know I love SEO, but we do love SEO that is grounded in good commercial kind of principles. I also do like SEO from a reputation management point of view, and I would encourage everyone to watch the video, also read the article, but also pay attention to that page and how it's being structured. I think you'll agree, Johnny, it's a good lesson for anyone who's a bit busy.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 08:43

I would like to do more content and literally in what is a seven minute video with all the transcription and so on, it makes for a very, very appealing page. But very quickly, Perna takes us through three key elements to explain what she means by backward design. Using the example of someone selling a new model of a car from a company called Fancy Schmancy Smart Car, which I think if it's not been claimed already, then I should go ahead and buy the domain name instead of the company. But three stages, one is reflection, two is planning, and three is measuring.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 09:07

And what I loved about the reflection stage, she was saying before you even start to do keyword research, which is usually how people may start to ask you, before you even start to write any content, start by being clear on three key elements. Be clear about your desired business outcomes and impacts. It could be revenue, it could be reputation, it could be a range of things. But can you be clear and explicitly express what you want for the business?

Pascal Fintoni

-: 09:30

As a result of which, can you be clear on the design reactions and the behavior change from your audience? And then therefore, can you be clear on the content types and formats that will help you achieve the business outcomes and the audience outcomes? And I think she's clear. I agree with her that very often when people talk to me, they want to get straight into the content creation mode.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 09:54

And I'm the one to arrange them in to say, well, actually, tell me more about the business or your audience and so on. Because without that information, I might give you some general advice as opposed to something very specific. The planning, I think, was very, very good. What she's saying, though, if you think about it, and I'm going to use her words here, before you even start creating a single word of content, you want to build your own content brief.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 10:17

How many clients do you know, Johnny, that rush straight into content creation and do not write a brief? I'm actually saying it's a simple one-pager where you capture essentially what you want to achieve, you know, what are the questions and so on, and I shall leave people to listen and read the article here, but this idea of a content brief before you even start your keyword research and content creation is very, very important. You're more likely than to achieve.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 10:40

And then with the measurements, I thought she had a lovely way to go about it. What she was saying is sometimes measurement is a bit too narrow, looking just at the results. And I think what she was saying is if you think about the wide range of business goals and outcomes, you may want to measure four different stages of that customer journey. So number one, When you review the content marketing using the backward design, what was the reach?

Pascal Fintoni

-: 10:50

And can we learn some lessons from that? As a result of which, what did we get in terms of reactions, good, bad, and ugly? What was the response? And finally, what were the results?

Pascal Fintoni

-: 10:57

So she's looking at four different ways to measure impact, as opposed to just the end point, if you will, Johnny, of what did we get for it?

Jonny Ross

-: 11:27

Yeah, and do you know, I've actually heard Perna speak at an SEO conference. She's always sharing good advice and this is really good advice. So many times clients will write for the wrong reason. So if you're writing for the search engines, if you're writing for voice search, if you're writing for how to appear in AI, that's the wrong reason.

Jonny Ross

-: 11:49

You need to always be focusing on the, whether it be the consumer, whether it be the business, whoever it is your target audience is, whoever your potential client, your potential customer. It always has to be written for them. And I love the idea of spinning this on its head and thinking, OK, what do you want them to be doing once they've read this? What are you hoping that they're going to get out of this?

Jonny Ross

-: 12:11

How are you going to leave them feeling? What are you going to leave them expecting or understanding once they've read this, once they've absorbed this, once they've engaged with it? instead of right at the start of the funnel, which is, you know, what keywords can we put in there? What title?

Jonny Ross

-: 12:51

So thinking about right at the end, I like the idea of spinning on his head and thinking, how do we want them to feel afterwards? And that helps think about, you know, their pain points, common questions that they might be having, how you can ultimately add value by sharing experiences, building trust, and providing content that's really going to make a difference and leave them, wherever that be, wanting more, wanting to speak to you, wanting to explore your products and services, or perhaps just being able to go off and do something and fix something themselves, whatever that might be. So, yeah, I like the spin on thinking about it the other way around.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 13:17

I thought you might, and listening to you reminds me of the conversation I have sometimes with my friends working in PR, where they go and meet a new client, and the client says, I want to be in the papers, or I want to be on this. And then they go back and say, well, but why? What are we trying to achieve here? If they feel it's comfortable enough to say, I've got plenty of ways for you to be in a paper, but that would not necessarily be right for your reputation.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 14:03

And I think this idea of reflecting first on the desired outcomes and the behavior, And what she's saying in terms of the content, so literally, if you, for example, run a business where having meetings with clients is very important to you, because you convert very highly once they've met you, then everything you do then needs to point towards this idea of having a meeting with Johnny is something that I would desire to do. And therefore, the content, the website, everything that you do is there to showcase that having meetings with Johnny is an experience that one should seek out as opposed to avoid. So this level of reflection, and therefore how this is impacting your content effort, I like it.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 14:12

And it's certainly more plausible for the vast majority of our customers than just going to do some keyword research and start writing content that you don't feel connected with.

Jonny Ross

-: 14:22

Valuable content, that's what it's all about, isn't it? It's about how adding value, simple as that. Which, you know, that's what we do on a daily basis,

Pascal Fintoni

-: 14:22

is it

Jonny Ross

-: 14:30

not? Talking of which, let's add some more value with our third segment, which is the website engine room.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 14:49

Now, every time we get together, we select one app each or a solution, a software piece of kit that can make life easier as a content creator and website manager. And what is your selection, Jonny Ross, for episode 41?

Jonny Ross

-: 15:07

Designify. I don't think we set out for this episode to be all about website images and search engine optimization and thinking about that content. But it just so happens how the planets have aligned and the stars have aligned. A lot of it is about images.

Jonny Ross

-: 15:54

So designify.com is a little tool, little app that you can turn any picture into something, well quite awesome actually, having played and tried it. There's loads of image apps out there and like I've said in many episodes, this is about finding the right thing for you and the right, you know, depending on what you're trying to do on a particular day depend on the the right app that might be best for that particular thing that you're trying to do and until you try these different apps you don't know the right one to be using. There's a free version and it's very fast it of course uses some AI and you literally just upload the image and it can really do some clever things with that image very quickly so have a play with it is what I'm trying to say.

Jonny Ross

-: 16:06

designify.com and gives you the ability to be able to batch edit as well which is quite handy if you've got a number of images that you're trying to do something in particular to it all in

Pascal Fintoni

-: 16:13

one go. Thank you. I didn't know about that one, so I definitely will try it. I'm always looking for ways to make images have more impact.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 16:37

Well, from images to moving images, I've got actually one that I thought we had mentioned, so I did check the show notes for all 41 episodes, and I want to talk about Screencastify, so another product with an e-fi at the end. And I found myself actually having to... Well, I was responding to a client, and the email was getting a bit long, and I thought, I need to be clearer. I need to send a video message.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 16:47

And I said, what do I normally use? It's been a while. I remembered Screencastify that can record your screen, can record your camera, webcam, or can combine the two. You have some element of editing.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 17:18

And typically, the scenario that I just mentioned was about sending a personal video message. But actually, you could do all manner of video stories to tutorials and video case studies or your own version of whiteboard friday using screencastify you can present some information keep it short keep it succinct but it's a lovely way to add value media interest and impact to your website by using a very simple tool. You can download the free version, then you can go on to a payment plan if you want to record more.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 17:25

You can choose, again, size and all sorts of things. So Screencastify for the video messages that can increase the impact of your website.

Jonny Ross

-: 18:00

Yeah and it's very timely actually because I've been using Dropbox Capture for probably well when it first came out and I can't remember when that is probably a good two, three, four years ago and they've announced this week that they're discontinuing it in March and I'm absolutely gutted because it's something that I use literally on a hourly basis never mind a daily basis so very good timing because I need to completely change the the screen recording tool that I'm using So I will be checking screencastify out. So that's very helpful, Pascal. You must have known.

Jonny Ross

-: 18:08

Thank you. So let's move on to our final segment, which is the website call to action.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 18:24

Now this is about the one change, the one adjustment your website should be doing right now to improve its appeal, its impact for you and your visitors. Jonny, what is your

Jonny Ross

-: 18:39

recommendation? Yeah, so sticking on the image theme, this is about image compression. I was talking about very large images earlier. Irrelevant of the size of the image that you've uploaded to your website, it probably does need compressing.

Jonny Ross

-: 19:13

It speeds the website up, it reduces load times. But the point is it's about trying to find ways of compressing images where you don't lose the quality and that's really important. But if you want to rank well in search and you want users to convert on your website, so those two things really, irrelevant of each other, so whether it's be ranking on search engines or whether it's usability and converting with people, getting them to turn them into leads on a website.

Jonny Ross

-: 19:38

I mean you want both of those things, don't you, to happen. Images, the size of images can make a big difference. No one wants to be waiting around, no one wants slow websites and so it's about converting and compressing images. There's a reasonably new technology, I've mentioned it on an episode before, WebP is the latest technology that, well certainly Google suggests all images on websites should be converted to.

Jonny Ross

-: 20:01

There's lots of different tools, so there's one that we've mentioned before which is Squoosh, you can use a little desktop tool where you can turn an image into a WebP file. But there's lots of automated ways of doing this as well. So you can do it in things like Photoshop, but you can also get a WordPress plugin. If you've got a WordPress site, there's other plugins and add-ons for different content management systems available.

Jonny Ross

-: 20:31

And it's all about converting them from JPEGs or PNGs. to this new format, WebP. It gives much smaller, so it's 26% smaller than a PNG even, so a lot of people move to PNG for websites, but it's now about, let's go for WebP, which is even smaller and gives you, without losing the quality, that's the key thing. So yeah, compress your images is what I would suggest for my call to action.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 20:49

Thank you very much. And I can understand people's frustration having to do yet another step and thinking, but what's going on here? We're meant to be moving on to 5G and this and the other. But what Google is doing really is allowing for territories where they don't have as good connectivity as we have.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 21:14

And that page load time is still a massive, massive factor in your ranking. Talking of factors that affect ranking, I've been looking a lot at AI summaries of labels on Gemini, Copilot, and all the others. And what is interesting, there's more and more pressure on all of them. And perplexity.ai, my favorite AI platform, as you know, was the first one to use citation and using referencing to documentation.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 21:48

I'm seeing a lot of kind of PDFs and kind of white papers and other kind of documents being referenced as well. web pages particularly people looking for that. So my call to action inspired by a recent workshop is to reset and update all your lead magnets or your free downloads. So give an example a client had a actually very very good free download but the final name was ebookfinalversion.pdf So just on that point again, which is how we're going to start it and close this episode, you've got to make sure you name it correctly.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 22:02

What is it? Who is it from again? But then when I was looking at the page, I was thinking, it's all right, but I've got a feeling that the language has moved on a bit. And I think, for example, people may use the term playbook a bit more than e-book now.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 22:24

They may use the term you know, how to guide. So the naming of that resource needs to be researched a bit more, but also the copy of the landing page needs to be reflected upon. Is it clear enough? I mean, if, for example, you've uploaded this e-book six, 12 months ago, two years ago, three years ago, I can guarantee you things have moved on.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 22:52

So, you know, look at the copy again, look at the images that you've got, look at the call to action, you know, and think about the language that you're using. and is it time for it to be updated? Do that, then re-share and re-promote that landing page, even with those who know it already, because they can pass it on to their pals, and you might just get more successes. But more importantly for me, the usefulness of that e-book for download, I want it to be listed in the AI summaries for you.

Jonny Ross

-: 22:53

I

Pascal Fintoni

-: 22:53

mean,

Jonny Ross

-: 23:13

the question is, does it even still reflect your brand and what your business means? If you developed it a few years ago, there's a high chance that perhaps even your branding has changed. So yeah, I mean, even just from that point of view. And there's no question that citations are being used way more in AI.

Jonny Ross

-: 23:24

I mean, even when you're using chat GPT now and searching things, it will bring in links where it's found the, you know, it wants to prove that it's not talking nonsense, even though sometimes it does,

Pascal Fintoni

-: 23:25

but it

Jonny Ross

-: 23:44

wants to continue proving that and give you the citations of where it's found this information. And Pascal's absolutely right that PDFs play a big part in this. So I like that, I love the idea, you know, why not go back, make sure they're evergreen and repromote and, you know, gives you more social content and email content as well, doesn't it?

Pascal Fintoni

-: 23:45

Great

Jonny Ross

-: 24:09

idea. A packed episode all, well, a lot about website images. I mean, we've covered really every angle of images, so how to make them look good, but also how to make sure that they're optimised from an SEO point of view. the file names and the alt tags, but also the size of the images, compressing them and how you can use them and making them stand out and feature.

Jonny Ross

-: 24:37

We've covered moving on to content, images are content, but the written content and how to really change the lens on how you come up with content and thinking from the outcomes, the other side. What do you want the person to feel once they've engaged with that content instead of the starting point which typically is, right, we need an article to rank for X, Y, and Z. Let's just use those words and write something. Well, that's the wrong way of doing it, isn't it?

Jonny Ross

-: 24:59

So great advice there. A couple of great engine room apps that we talked about, which was the Screencastify.com for recording your screen and the Designify for an AI-driven platform that simplifies photo editing. compress your images and reset your lead magnets and free download. Another packed episode for episode 41, Pascal.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 25:22

Yeah, absolutely. And if I'm just quickly, we mentioned that I was, I'm really, really liking the way Perna mentioned by the measurements, you know, the reach reactions, response and results. And I think we need to also put out some pressure on ourselves as the expert, but also our clients who kind of look at impact of campaigns more broadly than just, did we get more sales or did we get more hits on the website and that kind of things.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 25:25

And I think that was a lovely reminder on her part as well.

Jonny Ross

-: 25:43

Yeah, for sure. Listen, if you are listening, if you're watching, tell us what you would like to know. Are there any particular apps or pieces of kit that you've used that you think others would like to know more about? Perhaps you've got a question or an article that you've seen that we could use in our website stories.

Jonny Ross

-: 25:54

Please do get in touch. We'd love to hear from our listeners or watchers or our viewers. And yeah, spread the word. The more people that we can help, the better we feel as well.

Jonny Ross

-: 26:04

This is why we do this. We like learning, but we also like sharing. We like sharing information. And so many times, we're in a workshop, Pascal, are we not?

Jonny Ross

-: 26:28

And the questions we get asked, that's why we bring them to these podcasts. The questions that we get asked, it feels like it's, well, you should know the answer to that, but actually, Business owners are focused on their business. They're focused on their expertise, whatever that particular thing is. And all of this sort of digital marketing, we take for granted.

Jonny Ross

-: 26:34

We know it inside out. But actually, there's no daft questions. Ask us the questions. That's what I'm trying to say.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 26:54

Yeah, and listen, you know, I catch myself sometimes thinking if the role was reversed, for example, I'm about to be my accountant, and I honestly convince my accountant must think he must despair. He's been looking after me for decades. It was despair, my lack of a recollection of what we've discussed, but understanding of what he's telling me. So I get it.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 27:11

And that's, Johnny, you're right. That's what we're here for. That's what we love doing this, this series of, you know, short form content, which is most unlike us. And listen, for anyone, if you feel like you've covered some of the actions we've discussed, if you know already about some of the apps we've mentioned, then do go on the official website.

Pascal Fintoni

-: 27:20

You're going to have fun with the Acton Randomizer, and you will find as well a lot more tools in our top 50 selection of apps in a wonderful e-book.

Jonny Ross

-: 27:42

And of course, a link to the book, Web Proud. That's it for episode 41 of the 90 Day Website Mastery Podcast, your audio companion to the 90 Day Website Mastery Program. For more information and to get all those resources we just talked about, visit 90daymarketingmastery.com. Go do it now, 90daymarketingmastery.com.

Jonny Ross

-: 27:50

Check us out, check out the resources, check out the links. You could even book a discovery call with either myself or Pascal. But that's it. Goodbye for now.

Jonny Ross

-: 27:59

We'll leave you with a fun video and audio montage to enjoy whilst you review your notes and action steps. We look forward to speaking to you soon. And make sure that you feel proud of your website. Take care.

Jonny Ross

-: 28:00

Bye-bye.