#106 The Future-Ready Brand: Mitch Duckler's Blueprint for Tomorrow’s Branding
Introduction to Future-Ready Branding
Welcome to this enlightening episode of Jonny Ross Fractional CMO, where we dive deep with Mitch Duckler, author and branding expert, into what it takes to build a brand that not only survives but thrives in the future. Discover cutting-edge insights straight from the minds of the world's top CMOs.
What is a Future-Ready Brand?
Learn from Mitch about the essential characteristics that define a future-ready brand. We discuss the importance of integrating purpose with business goals and how this synergy can drive a brand forward amidst rapid technological and societal changes.
Emerging Technologies in Branding
Mitch shares his expert insights on how emerging technologies like artificial intelligence, the Metaverse, and augmented reality are transforming the branding landscape. Understand how these technologies can personalize customer experiences and redefine engagement.
Purpose-Driven Branding: Beyond the Buzzword
Hear Mitch debunk the myths of purpose-washing and explain how genuine purpose-driven branding can be implemented effectively. Learn how to align your brand authentically with societal values without falling into the trap of superficial branding tactics.
CMO Insights: Navigating Brand Challenges
Mitch discusses his interactions with 43 CMOs from global giants like McDonald's, PepsiCo, and BMW. Uncover common themes and innovative strategies these leading marketers are employing to tackle today's branding challenges.
AI and Marketing: Risks and Rewards
Explore the dual-edged sword of AI in marketing as Mitch elaborates on both the opportunities and the pitfalls. From enhancing customer segmentation to the risks of data privacy, get a balanced view on how AI is reshaping marketing departments across industries.
Gen Z and the New Market Dynamics
Understand the impact of Gen Z on current marketing strategies. Mitch explains the 'me vs. we' dynamic of Gen Z and how brands can effectively engage with this influential demographic without compromising their core values.
Conclusion and Call to Action
We wrap up with key takeaways from Mitch Duckler on making your brand resilient and adaptable for the future. Mitch also shares where listeners can find more about his work and his latest book, 'The Future-Ready Brand.'
Where to Find Mitch Duckler
Connect with Mitch through his official site at https://fullsurge.com, follow him on LinkedIn, or check out his TEDx talk "Discover Your Differentiator". For deeper insights, pick up a copy of 'The Future-Ready Brand' available at major book retailers.
Engage with Us
Loved this episode? Have thoughts or questions about future-ready branding? Join the conversation on our social media channels or leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. We love hearing from you!
Subscribe and Stay Updated
Don’t miss out on our upcoming episodes with more thought leaders like Mitch Duckler. Subscribe to Jonny Ross Fractional CMO on Apple Podcasts and stay at the forefront of marketing and branding innovations.
Topics:
00:12 - 10:07
Future Ready Brand
Purpose in Branding
CMOs Insights
Emerging Technologies
AI in Marketing
Privacy Concerns
Compliance and Legal
10:08 - 20:06
data privacy and regulation
generative AI
content marketing
creativity
emotion
human touch
branding
societal implications
purpose
Gen Z
technology
emerging technologies
marketing
authenticity
transparency
connection
experience
sub brands
portfolio
profit
triple bottom line
people
planet
sustainability
green movement
20:06 - 29:59
Purpose-driven marketing
Hyper-personalization
Online and offline integration
Experiential marketing
Extended reality technologies
Content generation and marketing
29:59 - 39:54
AI-generated content
ChatGPT
systemic biases
data integrity
hallucinations
short form content
long form content
social media
human talent
creativity
emotions
experimenting with emerging technologies
surrendering control to consumers
influencer marketing
brand protection
future ready brand book
contact information
39:54 - 40:36
pre-order
fantastic information
Mitch
Jonny Ross Fractional CMO
watching
listening
Transcript
Hello and welcome to Jonny Ross
Speaker:Fractional CMO. We are live on YouTube
Speaker:and we are live on LinkedIn. Welcome to
Speaker:Jonny Ross Fractional CMO, your compass
Speaker:in the ever evolving landscape of
Speaker:marketing and branding. In today's
Speaker:special episode, we're thrilled to have
Speaker:Mitch Duckler, the visionary behind the
Speaker:Future Ready brand, who will be sharing
Speaker:cutting edge insights straight from the
Speaker:minds of some of the world's top CMOs.
Speaker:Get ready to dive into the strategies
Speaker:that are defining the next era of
Speaker:branding and discover how your brand can
Speaker:not only adapt, but thrive in the face of
Speaker:change. Let's embark on this journey
Speaker:together with Marty Excellence, with
Speaker:Mitch Duckler. How are you Mitch?
Speaker:I'm doing well, Jonny, how are you?
Speaker:Yeah, really good indeed, thank you. Very
Speaker:excited to talk about the future ready
Speaker:brand. And in fact, I wanted to totally
Speaker:dive in because 1 of the things that you
Speaker:explore in your book is the critical role
Speaker:of purpose in branding. But I'm very
Speaker:aware that as more brands claim to be
Speaker:purpose driven, there's this growing
Speaker:skepticism around purpose washing and how
Speaker:companies genuinely integrate purpose
Speaker:into their brand without falling into the
Speaker:trap of appearing insincere or just
Speaker:jumping on the bandwagon. Where is that?
Speaker:No, that's a great 0.1 of the things I
Speaker:talk about in the book, in that chapter
Speaker:on purpose, is to separate a few
Speaker:different concepts, right? There's at the
Speaker:first level, and this is all good by the
Speaker:way, I'm not trying to be critical or
Speaker:judgmental, but at the most basic level,
Speaker:there's CSR, right? A corporate social
Speaker:responsibility platform or campaign that
Speaker:I'd say most companies of any size adhere
Speaker:to. And that's all well and good. The
Speaker:next level up, I would say, would be
Speaker:purpose-driven companies. So these are
Speaker:companies that not just have a CSR, but
Speaker:they live by this ethos. Whatever that
Speaker:purpose is, whether it's a cause or a
Speaker:competency or what have you, it's in
Speaker:their DNA, right? They, everything that
Speaker:they do, decisions are being made
Speaker:consistent with that purpose. Candidates
Speaker:are hired based on their embracing of
Speaker:that purpose, etc. And then I think a
Speaker:level above that is not only are you
Speaker:purpose driven, but you define your
Speaker:brand, your corporate brand by that
Speaker:purpose. And that's probably the highest
Speaker:level of all, but especially in the
Speaker:latter, right? When you have a company
Speaker:that is purpose driven and your brand is
Speaker:defined by that purpose, it is so
Speaker:critical that it be genuine, right? And
Speaker:that you activate and you bring that
Speaker:brand to life in ways that are very
Speaker:consistent with your purpose or it will
Speaker:be disingenuous, right? It'll be
Speaker:perceived as purpose washing.
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah. And That's the issue, isn't
Speaker:it? And we're going to get onto Gen Z,
Speaker:which I guess is where the biggest
Speaker:skepticism will come from. But let's just
Speaker:talk about the book itself. So you
Speaker:interviewed, was it 40, 48 CMOs around
Speaker:the world? 43. And I mean, from the likes
Speaker:of McDonald's, PepsiCo, Wells Fargo, BMW,
Speaker:Salesforce, new balance, young brands. I
Speaker:mean, some, some world-class CMOs. I
Speaker:mean, you know, that, that, that in
Speaker:itself must've been quite an exercise. It
Speaker:took you about a year, is that right?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah. It's as you might imagine, I
Speaker:mean, some of these folks I've known, but
Speaker:most I didn't, right? So as you can
Speaker:imagine, just even identifying them and
Speaker:getting on their radar and getting them
Speaker:to commit and then schedule and follow
Speaker:through was quite a task.
Speaker:What were some of the common threads that
Speaker:you saw across some of these very large
Speaker:corporations from their CMOs?
Speaker:What was really interesting to me,
Speaker:Johnny, was in particular, as we got into
Speaker:the middle section of the book, it's
Speaker:around emerging technology. So what we're
Speaker:talking about is artificial intelligence,
Speaker:predictive analytics, extended realities,
Speaker:so virtual reality, augmented reality,
Speaker:metaverse, et cetera. And then Web3,
Speaker:blockchain, and so forth. I mean, These
Speaker:are all, these are the emerging
Speaker:technologies that are kind of on their
Speaker:minds. And I was really interested to
Speaker:hear or to find that they're all kind of
Speaker:in a similar, most of them are in a
Speaker:similar place and that they feel that
Speaker:they need to be experimenting with these
Speaker:technologies. And they don't have the
Speaker:luxury of sitting back waiting to see how
Speaker:the technology evolves, which platforms
Speaker:are the winners and which are not. And
Speaker:they're all kind of taking measured steps
Speaker:towards experimenting and learning about
Speaker:it. AI is certainly further along than
Speaker:some of the other technologies I
Speaker:mentioned, right? They're actually knee
Speaker:deep in that now. But they're really
Speaker:embracing it and testing and learning and
Speaker:just kind of kicking the tires if you
Speaker:will. And I think that that's really very
Speaker:smart. Another thing I think that came
Speaker:out of this, especially the AI portion of
Speaker:technology is the belief that this has
Speaker:the ability to elevate the stature of
Speaker:marketing within the company, within the
Speaker:C-suite in particular. So by that I mean
Speaker:if you use AI right, right, And you don't
Speaker:necessarily need to be a data scientist,
Speaker:but you need to understand the
Speaker:capabilities of AI. You need to
Speaker:understand what the CIO can do for you,
Speaker:that he or she may be your best friend as
Speaker:much as the head of sales, right? That if
Speaker:you embrace that, you really can start to
Speaker:own the growth agenda for your company to
Speaker:a much higher level than you may have
Speaker:been previously because of all of the
Speaker:power that the technology brings.
Speaker:So, but then at the same time, I'm
Speaker:guessing that some of them could be
Speaker:wasting an absolute fortune on
Speaker:experimenting with AI, but I assume
Speaker:that's just part of the cause and that's
Speaker:taken into account for whatever loss they
Speaker:may have, as long as they get some big
Speaker:wins, it balances.
Speaker:Yeah, I think so. And 1 of the things,
Speaker:some of the CMOs actually even use this
Speaker:verbiage, they said it's crawl, walk,
Speaker:run. So the crawling is, let's say we're
Speaker:talking about AI, so we'll stay on that
Speaker:for a moment. That might just be, you're
Speaker:experimenting with generative AI. So it
Speaker:could be as simple as using chat GPT or
Speaker:an equivalent. But as you start to get
Speaker:comfortable with that, as you begin to
Speaker:realize its impact, its potential, as
Speaker:well as what it does well and what it
Speaker:doesn't, then you might wanna start
Speaker:thinking about customizing these things,
Speaker:right? So it's not just the off the
Speaker:shelf, but it's customized chat GPT. And
Speaker:then for certain things, especially like
Speaker:mission critical functions within your
Speaker:company, you might want to bring it in
Speaker:house, right? And actually start building
Speaker:your own AI, in this case, generative AI
Speaker:infrastructure, right? Your own GPT, if
Speaker:you will, so that you have it in house
Speaker:and as proprietary and so forth. You
Speaker:don't necessarily need to go to that
Speaker:final, nor would you want to go to that
Speaker:final step, you know, right out of the
Speaker:gate, right? You kind of work your way up
Speaker:to it gradually.
Speaker:Did they show any concern around privacy
Speaker:and how much they would be sharing with
Speaker:the likes of cheap ET. I mean, you're
Speaker:talking about some of the world's biggest
Speaker:brands.
Speaker:Yes. And absolutely. And they are
Speaker:certainly the most, in most cases, the
Speaker:most risk averse. Right. So, and here
Speaker:they were a little bit all over the
Speaker:board. I've talked to some of the CMOs
Speaker:who are in very, and some of it just is
Speaker:because they're in regulated industries
Speaker:and they have to be, but others are just
Speaker:in very risk averse cultures. And there
Speaker:is a lot of concern over a few things. I
Speaker:mean, certainly privacy is 1 of them, but
Speaker:also just even data integrity. Is the
Speaker:data that they're getting, is it
Speaker:reliable? Are there biases, systemic
Speaker:biases in the data that is being
Speaker:generated by ownership rights, right? Who
Speaker:owns the intellectual property that's
Speaker:actually being created by it? Are you
Speaker:violating copyrights? So yeah, there's,
Speaker:there's a whole host of legal concerns
Speaker:that, that are on their minds and risk
Speaker:that they need to be willing to
Speaker:undertake.
Speaker:And did you get any feeling that
Speaker:compliance and legal were suppressing
Speaker:some of what marketing could do or Is
Speaker:that just that there's ways of dealing
Speaker:with that?
Speaker:So again, yeah, I think yes, there's
Speaker:concern, but also the realization that
Speaker:you can't just reject it outright and
Speaker:say, you know what, it's not for me, or
Speaker:I'm going to wait 10 years until all the
Speaker:kinks are out. They're kind of proceeding
Speaker:cautiously, right? And almost to a T,
Speaker:it's interesting when I talk about the
Speaker:topics with the CMOs, like here, there's
Speaker:9 topics, right? A chapter on each in the
Speaker:book. Which ones would you like to talk
Speaker:about? Most of them said, oh, you know,
Speaker:we're not really doing much with AI. And
Speaker:yet, when I started, you know, probing,
Speaker:I'm like, you're doing a lot more than
Speaker:you realize a lot more than most, right?
Speaker:So, yeah, they kind of get it that you
Speaker:need to proceed, but proceed cautiously.
Speaker:I would say, yeah, that data privacy and
Speaker:regulation, I think is 1 of the big
Speaker:concerns. Another, I think, is a concern,
Speaker:especially in the area of generative AI
Speaker:and content marketing is around just
Speaker:losing kind of creativity and losing the
Speaker:emotion, right? And the human touch,
Speaker:especially as it relates to content. And
Speaker:those are all just some of the concerns
Speaker:and the watch outs that are on their
Speaker:minds, but certainly none of that is
Speaker:stopping them from using the technology
Speaker:and experimenting with it in a big
Speaker:way. So you typically work with large
Speaker:organizations, you know, it might be the
Speaker:senior directors or VPs of marketing or
Speaker:brand or etc. 1 of the things that I'm
Speaker:wondering and having written the book,
Speaker:what do they, What do you use to define
Speaker:exactly what a future ready brand means?
Speaker:Well, I think it's really, it kind of
Speaker:goes across all 3 sections of the book. I
Speaker:think that there are societal
Speaker:implications for brands, right? So we
Speaker:talked earlier about purpose, right? And
Speaker:the role that purpose plays, whether it's
Speaker:just as simple as having a CSR platform
Speaker:or actually defining your brand by a
Speaker:purpose, I think it is something you need
Speaker:to think about because it is increasingly
Speaker:important to consumers. It's nothing new,
Speaker:right? Purpose has been around for a long
Speaker:time, purpose branding, But I would argue
Speaker:that it's only increasing in importance
Speaker:because of the generations that are
Speaker:really now dominating the marketplace,
Speaker:right, millennials and Gen Z. So I think
Speaker:that's really important to kind of figure
Speaker:out where you are, like if you, to what
Speaker:extent you are purpose driven, to what
Speaker:extent should your brand or is your brand
Speaker:defined by that purpose and so forth. The
Speaker:other thing I think again, being future
Speaker:ready in that societal bucket is Gen Z,
Speaker:right? And they are kind of, they are the
Speaker:dominant, going to be the dominant
Speaker:generation from a commercial and
Speaker:marketplace perspective for a number of
Speaker:years. So really understanding the nature
Speaker:of them, what drives them, what motivates
Speaker:them. A little bit I talk about in the
Speaker:book is this notion that they are a
Speaker:little bit schizophrenic in that there's
Speaker:really 2 segments of Gen Z. There's the
Speaker:me and the we, right? The me is very much
Speaker:defined by individuality and
Speaker:self-expression. The we, which I think is
Speaker:what most people associate with Gen Z, is
Speaker:very socially conscious. They're very
Speaker:aware of causes such as ESG and DE&I. So
Speaker:I think, you know, just understanding
Speaker:that and how you need to be able to
Speaker:relate to them and to market to them is
Speaker:really critical and part of what's making
Speaker:your brand future ready. And then the
Speaker:other side is the technology, right? And
Speaker:just realizing that these emerging
Speaker:technologies, which AI I would argue is
Speaker:beyond emerging, right? It's almost here,
Speaker:right? But even if you look at extended
Speaker:reality and Web3 and blockchain and NFTs
Speaker:and so forth, These are as disruptive now
Speaker:as the internet was 20, 25 years ago. And
Speaker:it really is, we are starting to see some
Speaker:fairly seismic shifts in marketing and in
Speaker:brand building and the relationships that
Speaker:marketers have with consumers much like
Speaker:we did in the dawn of the digital age.
Speaker:You mentioned societal there and I'm
Speaker:guessing that the biggest influence in
Speaker:from what you're saying in society is Jen
Speaker:said then, and you talked about the we
Speaker:and the me, the 2 different sides. How do
Speaker:organizations market to both different
Speaker:sides at the same time? How do they
Speaker:navigate that? Because to some extent,
Speaker:whilst there's lots of similarities, they
Speaker:do have very different desires and wants.
Speaker:So I don't know if there's any examples
Speaker:you might have or thoughts on how they
Speaker:deal with it?
Speaker:Yeah, I think there are certainly some
Speaker:differences, right? And where there are
Speaker:differences, I think again, me, we, I
Speaker:mean, those could arguably be polar
Speaker:opposites, but there are also some
Speaker:commonalities and things that they have
Speaker:that they share, right? And I think 1,
Speaker:and it goes back to this, the issue we
Speaker:just talked about, around purpose, which
Speaker:is this, regardless of whether they're
Speaker:kind of a me or a we, they have a desire
Speaker:for authenticity and transparency,
Speaker:whether they're me or we. So, and you're
Speaker:seeing that play out in the way brands
Speaker:are marketing today, right? This shift
Speaker:from influencers to creators, from
Speaker:content provided by marketers to user
Speaker:generated content, homespun content, if
Speaker:you will, and things that aren't
Speaker:necessarily polished and perfect, but
Speaker:they're just real and authentic. And I
Speaker:think that that is something that
Speaker:regardless of who you are within Gen Z
Speaker:and whether you skew more towards this we
Speaker:snapshot or me snapshot, that is
Speaker:something that I think is that they
Speaker:share. Another is this desire for
Speaker:connection and experience. I think Gen Z,
Speaker:regardless of whether you're in that me
Speaker:or we camp, they really do seek out
Speaker:experiences. So, kind of mixing up the
Speaker:commerce a little bit, you know, pop-up
Speaker:stores, things like that, just making the
Speaker:experience, whether it's retail or other,
Speaker:more immersive, I think is something that
Speaker:definitely appeals to this generation,
Speaker:much more so, I think, even than other
Speaker:generations before them.
Speaker:Is it enough of a reason for producing
Speaker:more sub brands within a portfolio or is
Speaker:that or is the whole me we that that's
Speaker:not that's not a good enough reason to
Speaker:have a separate brand?
Speaker:The sense I got is no, they're not
Speaker:necessarily separate brands. I think it's
Speaker:just, and again, because there are a lot
Speaker:of commonalities, it's, it's, it's not
Speaker:like these are 2 grammatically different
Speaker:generations, right? It's just, I think
Speaker:it's really more around the, how you
Speaker:bring the brand to life, how you express
Speaker:it, how you activate it that might be a
Speaker:little bit different. It's not that you
Speaker:need like a me brand and a wee brand,
Speaker:right? They're not that dramatically
Speaker:different. So yeah, that's a
Speaker:generalization, but that's kind of the
Speaker:sense I got from talking to the CMOs
Speaker:about Gen Z, as well as just my
Speaker:experience working with clients on it.
Speaker:We talked about purpose earlier on, but 1
Speaker:of the things that is important for most
Speaker:organizations is profit. And so I'm just
Speaker:wondering how brands can effectively
Speaker:balance this with the drive for profit.
Speaker:Yeah. So 1 of the things again, in the
Speaker:purpose of chapter I talk about is the
Speaker:triple bottom line, which you may have
Speaker:heard of, right? So it's profit people
Speaker:and planet. And they're all important,
Speaker:right? It used to just be about profit,
Speaker:right? And it's, you know, hey, you're in
Speaker:business for 1 reason, and that's to
Speaker:increase shareholder value, right? To
Speaker:make money. While that certainly is not
Speaker:going away, right? That is a real goal,
Speaker:objective mission, whatever you want to
Speaker:call it, and will be forever, it's no
Speaker:longer sufficient, right? There's other
Speaker:things that matter. And that's where kind
Speaker:of the people and the planet come in, the
Speaker:other 2 Ps of that triple bottom line.
Speaker:And the really good news though, is that
Speaker:a lot of the longitudinal research that
Speaker:was done, this isn't my research, right?
Speaker:This research I leveraged though as part
Speaker:of the chapter in the book, is that
Speaker:companies that have a focus on purpose,
Speaker:whether it's a cause or competency or
Speaker:what have you, or regardless of what that
Speaker:purpose is, right, but they tend to do
Speaker:better financially, right? Their income,
Speaker:right, their profitability over the long
Speaker:haul is actually larger than those
Speaker:companies that are not considered to be
Speaker:purpose-driven. So it doesn't have to be
Speaker:1 or the other. In fact, it's not like,
Speaker:hey, are we in business to make money?
Speaker:Are we in business to promote our
Speaker:purpose? It's both and when you do 1 the
Speaker:other follows. And again that's what
Speaker:research was showing too, right? And so
Speaker:that's good news. Another similar point
Speaker:is, which I find kind of interesting is,
Speaker:you know, when I started out in the world
Speaker:of brand, this is back in the early
Speaker:1990s, some of these issues, like
Speaker:sustainability, and, and, and, you know,
Speaker:green, right, the green movement, Those
Speaker:were things that were starting to get on
Speaker:people's radar, right? And they were
Speaker:saying it's important, but when you did
Speaker:market research, people would say it's
Speaker:important, but they would never pay 1
Speaker:penny more for it. Right? Now that's not
Speaker:the case. Now what we're starting to see
Speaker:is that consumers, and again, whether
Speaker:it's green or another purpose, consumers
Speaker:are willing to pay in some cases up to
Speaker:20, 25% more for an equivalent product if
Speaker:they embrace the purpose that that
Speaker:company stands for. So again, that kind
Speaker:of goes hand in hand with this notion
Speaker:that the 2 aren't necessarily separate.
Speaker:You can be profitable and purpose driven.
Speaker:Yeah, I
Speaker:think that's a very, very fair point
Speaker:indeed. And there has absolutely been a
Speaker:swing from consumers to start paying for
Speaker:this without question.
Speaker:It's easy to say it's important. It's
Speaker:another to say I'll pay more for it.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, totally. If you're listening
Speaker:or watching right now, this is the Johnny
Speaker:Ross Fractional CMO. We are live on
Speaker:Instagram for the first time as well,
Speaker:which is great. So if you're joining us
Speaker:there, welcome. You may be listening to
Speaker:the podcast afterwards. You're just as
Speaker:welcome as well. We're with Mitch
Speaker:Duckler, the author of The Future Ready
Speaker:Brand. We're exploring what brands need
Speaker:to do to be future ready, especially from
Speaker:the insights of all the CMOs that you've
Speaker:spoken to from these worldwide large
Speaker:organizations, famous names that we've
Speaker:all heard of. What I'm wondering is, as
Speaker:you've spoken to the CMOs and you've got
Speaker:clearly technology, as you've said, is a
Speaker:very large part of this. I'm interested
Speaker:in how it's currently impacting marketing
Speaker:in general and what you're seeing.
Speaker:Yeah, so what I would say, especially
Speaker:artificial intelligence, maybe to a
Speaker:lesser extent, some of the other emerging
Speaker:technologies are driving more
Speaker:hyper-personalization. So I think that's
Speaker:when you think about AI's capabilities
Speaker:and its ability to classify much more
Speaker:finely and predict much more accurately,
Speaker:It's bringing about this dream of Peppers
Speaker:and Rogers back in the early 90s, the
Speaker:one-to-one future, which at that point
Speaker:was a pipe dream. It's that you could
Speaker:actually start crafting your brand and
Speaker:your marketing and your offer to each
Speaker:individual customer. But that's in a
Speaker:sense what AI is allowing you to do. It's
Speaker:no longer you have a segmentation schema
Speaker:of 6 or 5 or 6 segments, right? And you
Speaker:pick 1 or 2. I mean, you start to talk
Speaker:about a thousand different segments or
Speaker:clusters. And because AI is able to parse
Speaker:data out and classify much more finely
Speaker:and predict much more accurately, It's
Speaker:really dramatically different, right? It
Speaker:is almost making this notion of
Speaker:one-to-one marketing more of a reality
Speaker:than just a pipe dream.
Speaker:And how's that integrated into the,
Speaker:you've got your online and offline
Speaker:worlds. I'm assuming that online, that's
Speaker:a lot easier to do than offline. Are you
Speaker:seeing anything happening to bring those
Speaker:2 closer?
Speaker:Yes. So 1 of the CMOs I spoke with, the
Speaker:CMO from Sephora was a great example
Speaker:where he, they kind of merged online and
Speaker:offline. So you think about Sephora,
Speaker:they're, cosmetic, right? And they're,
Speaker:they have retail. I'm not sure how many
Speaker:5,000 stores I want.
Speaker:Whatever they are doing, they are doing
Speaker:it very well because all I have, all I
Speaker:have is my 10 year old daughter
Speaker:constantly telling me how I need to take
Speaker:it to a Sephora shop. So, yeah. And, and
Speaker:you know, she's on Snapchat, she's on
Speaker:TikTok. And you know, of course we
Speaker:monitor and of course we only allow
Speaker:certain times a day and all of that
Speaker:stuff, but my God, they are doing their
Speaker:job well because that is all I ever hear.
Speaker:And unfortunately, I'm going to have to
Speaker:give in at some point.
Speaker:Yeah, it's, it is, it's a great brand.
Speaker:It's a, it's a brand I have a lot of
Speaker:respect for and I'm sure he'll love. If I
Speaker:get back to him and tell him about your
Speaker:daughter, he'll, he'll be, he'll be
Speaker:thrilled to hear that. But if you think
Speaker:about that business, what they're able to
Speaker:do in store is, understand, a sales agent
Speaker:can be working with a customer and asking
Speaker:a lot of questions, what they're like,
Speaker:where are they from, their lifestyle,
Speaker:what sort of climate, right, are they
Speaker:exposed to, what are their activities,
Speaker:what kind of skin tone do they have, do
Speaker:they have oily or dry skin, their
Speaker:complexion, you know, are they interested
Speaker:in SPF or not, all these different, and
Speaker:then actually in front of the consumer,
Speaker:just putting this into AI and say, okay,
Speaker:out of these thousands of products, here
Speaker:are 3 or 4 we'd recommend. And like, you
Speaker:know, in a nanosecond, right? And it's
Speaker:not only fast, but it's probably a lot
Speaker:more accurate and predictive because it
Speaker:is so analytical and data driven. And
Speaker:then, oh, by the way, they're talking
Speaker:about how they can use augmented reality.
Speaker:You know, if you don't want to try the
Speaker:product on, well, we can show you what it
Speaker:looks like through AR, right? And, and,
Speaker:you know, your face, your exact
Speaker:reflection and what it will look like
Speaker:with this particular cosmetic. I mean, So
Speaker:yeah, it is blending both online and
Speaker:offline.
Speaker:Which, which is, you know, so important
Speaker:to engage Gen Z without question. Yeah.
Speaker:And that's another, yeah, going back to
Speaker:the earlier point about How immersive and
Speaker:how experiential is that interaction?
Speaker:Much more so than it has been in the
Speaker:past.
Speaker:You talked about experimental marketing
Speaker:there. How important is that as part of
Speaker:the mix?
Speaker:Experiential is definitely becoming more
Speaker:important. I think a lot of it is because
Speaker:for a couple of reasons. It's like I
Speaker:said, the some of it is just being driven
Speaker:by demand and preferences and trends,
Speaker:right? And that's what consumers want.
Speaker:But then the emerging technologies that
Speaker:we haven't talked as much about, we talk
Speaker:a lot about AI, but extended reality and
Speaker:virtual reality, augmented reality, mixed
Speaker:reality, these are things that especially
Speaker:I think augmented reality are having the
Speaker:ability to make experiences that might be
Speaker:mundane much more immersive. So Even
Speaker:though this was 1 of the interesting
Speaker:dynamics that during this interview
Speaker:process, the last 15 months or so, a
Speaker:metaverse took a dive. There was so much
Speaker:hype and so much build up around its
Speaker:potential. And then it kind of took a
Speaker:little bit of a nosedive in terms of,
Speaker:maybe we're getting a little bit ahead of
Speaker:this, the goggles aren't as great as they
Speaker:need to be, the experiences and what. And
Speaker:there is some wait and see about
Speaker:metaverse, right? And this web 2.5,
Speaker:right, where it's the metaverse, but it's
Speaker:not, it's not the Oculus metaverse. But
Speaker:what is real and, and present today is
Speaker:those extended realities, whether it's
Speaker:metaverse based or not, especially
Speaker:augmented reality in retail environments,
Speaker:is really changing the experience and
Speaker:making it much more immersive.
Speaker:So we've talked about how technologies
Speaker:are impacting marketing in general and we
Speaker:sort of stepped on this a tiny bit
Speaker:earlier in terms of specifically content.
Speaker:So let's just talk about how it's
Speaker:impacting content and where that's going
Speaker:really.
Speaker:Yeah, it's impacting content in a lot of
Speaker:ways. I think the way that's most evident
Speaker:or most familiar to people is in
Speaker:generation, content generation. So that's
Speaker:ChatGPT and its ability and the like and
Speaker:its ability to actually create a long
Speaker:form, in some cases, a very long form
Speaker:content with decent reliability and
Speaker:quality and enlightening fast time,
Speaker:right? But 1 of the things that I do
Speaker:highlight in the book is that it's really
Speaker:impacting content marketing from more
Speaker:than just that, right? It's impacting the
Speaker:way content is researched, right? So that
Speaker:includes like segmenting audiences or
Speaker:generating outlines, brainstorming
Speaker:topics. That's kind of on the front end
Speaker:of content. Then it's doing the actual
Speaker:creation in some cases. So that's the
Speaker:generative AI and the chat GPTs and so
Speaker:forth. It's also helping to personalize
Speaker:content. So think about versioning. So
Speaker:how do you actually take a piece of
Speaker:content and make it much more relevant
Speaker:for a particular segment or audience?
Speaker:Maybe it's more specific to a vertical or
Speaker:an industry or to a geography, or it's
Speaker:actually being translated into 7
Speaker:different languages. So that's the
Speaker:personalization. And then it's also
Speaker:helping you to curate and optimize. So go
Speaker:out and find content, especially
Speaker:user-generated content that is the most
Speaker:relevant for your brand. And then
Speaker:optimize it, obviously make it so that it
Speaker:is suitable for your brand, so it's
Speaker:on-brand, etc. So it's not just, again,
Speaker:chat GPT and the gen side, the generative
Speaker:side of AI, I think it's getting the most
Speaker:press if you will, about for AI and
Speaker:content, but I really think it's
Speaker:impacting much more.
Speaker:And what's your perception on how much,
Speaker:how much of the content we're seeing from
Speaker:some of these large organizations in
Speaker:terms of what's AI generated and what's
Speaker:human generated? And do you believe that
Speaker:there is going to be a continued move to
Speaker:AI generated content?
Speaker:I think it will. A lot of the issues that
Speaker:I brought up earlier are real, some of
Speaker:the obstacles, and that can include data
Speaker:integrity, systemic biases,
Speaker:hallucinations, right? In some cases, the
Speaker:AI doesn't know, doesn't have an answer,
Speaker:so it makes it up, right? And then you're
Speaker:like, oh my gosh, and it sounds real,
Speaker:right? So 1 of the things that I've, And
Speaker:I think this is fairly standard, but 1 of
Speaker:the things that I've heard from a lot of
Speaker:the CMOs is they trust it a lot more for
Speaker:short form content than they do for long
Speaker:form. The longer form content is where
Speaker:you start to run into trouble, the
Speaker:hallucinations, et cetera, the risk of
Speaker:going off brand or biases being
Speaker:interjected. So if you're, I want to say
Speaker:maybe 500 to 800 word pieces, they're
Speaker:feeling reasonably confident as long
Speaker:again. You can't just take it and run
Speaker:with it, but if you use it to kind of
Speaker:hypercharge what you're doing and to
Speaker:maybe save an hour to do something in 1
Speaker:hour versus 2 or 3 hours, that's huge. So
Speaker:yeah, I think that that's the biggest
Speaker:use. Social media, I think is it's, I
Speaker:think I read somewhere where 70% of posts
Speaker:are at least somewhat AI influenced if
Speaker:not generated. So again, it's the shorter
Speaker:form where I think there's more
Speaker:confidence with it. Longer form, I think
Speaker:there's a lot of long way to go before
Speaker:people are going to start trusting it
Speaker:with meaningful thought leadership,
Speaker:longer form content pieces.
Speaker:Yeah. Well, I mean, if I think of in the
Speaker:UK, ASDA, which were part of Walmart, and
Speaker:I've seen some of the sponsored Facebook
Speaker:ads very recently and Instagram ads. And
Speaker:having as a user of AI on a regular
Speaker:basis, I'm looking at this ad and I'm
Speaker:thinking, there's no question in my mind
Speaker:that has been written by AI, by ChatGPT.
Speaker:But then I question myself and I wonder,
Speaker:have humans learned from that and are
Speaker:mimicking it? Or, or, or have they just
Speaker:totally gone with whatever chat GPTs come
Speaker:up with? But looking at it, I'm looking
Speaker:at it, thinking that that has definitely
Speaker:originated from chat GPT. And, and, and
Speaker:even as a, what I consider to myself to
Speaker:be an expert in terms of understanding
Speaker:the content, the output from ChatGPT,
Speaker:even I am looking at that thinking, I'm
Speaker:not sure. Would a large corp just rely
Speaker:purely on that? No. And that's
Speaker:the... No. And nobody that, at least
Speaker:nobody I talked to in these interviews
Speaker:was, right? They're saying they're using
Speaker:it very... The greatest quote came from
Speaker:Jill Kramer, who's the CMO of Accenture.
Speaker:She said, AI is an amplifier of human
Speaker:talent. And that was spot on. She's
Speaker:saying, There are things that AI does
Speaker:incredibly well, right? And it can be,
Speaker:you know, obviously very analytical. It
Speaker:can crunch data. It can process, you
Speaker:know, a large amount of information, et
Speaker:cetera, et cetera. But what it can't do
Speaker:is it can't interject emotion, and it
Speaker:can't be creative. And that's what humans
Speaker:will always need to do. No matter how
Speaker:good AI gets, those 2 things, like
Speaker:creativity and emotion, I just think are
Speaker:inherently human. And will always be the
Speaker:job of the marketer. But her point is, AI
Speaker:does a lot of these other things for you
Speaker:so well, and so efficiently and
Speaker:effectively, that it allows you to do
Speaker:what you do well, right? And to focus on
Speaker:that. You have more time to be creative.
Speaker:You have more time to be strategic, to
Speaker:inject emotion, human emotion, because AI
Speaker:is taking some of the laborious and
Speaker:analytical burden off of you. I think
Speaker:that's probably the best way to think
Speaker:about it. If you want to turn your
Speaker:content marketing effort over to AI, good
Speaker:luck with that, right? That's a recipe
Speaker:for disaster. But if you use it as a tool
Speaker:as an aid to improving that function,
Speaker:there's a lot of potential there.
Speaker:Mitch, if you're a senior leader in
Speaker:branding or marketing in a large
Speaker:corporate corp, what would you be
Speaker:suggesting that you should be challenging
Speaker:yourself with, you know, in the in the
Speaker:next few days, next week, having listened
Speaker:to this, having read the book, of course,
Speaker:what would be the things that you need to
Speaker:be thinking about and really considering
Speaker:to make happen?
Speaker:Yeah, there's a couple. 1 of which I
Speaker:think we touched on a little bit earlier,
Speaker:but it's actually, you need to begin to
Speaker:experiment with some of these, if you're
Speaker:not already, some of these emerging
Speaker:technologies. Take a chance, create a
Speaker:pilot, a scrum, if you will, and just
Speaker:test it out in a low risk way if
Speaker:necessary. But start experimenting with
Speaker:what AI, what XR, even Web3 or
Speaker:blockchain, which we haven't talked about
Speaker:really as much today. These are things
Speaker:that I think you can experiment with in a
Speaker:relatively lower cost way and lower risk
Speaker:way. So if you're not already doing that,
Speaker:I think you need to because those are
Speaker:only going to become more dominant in the
Speaker:future. I think the other is another
Speaker:common theme that came out from a lot of
Speaker:these interviews was this notion that
Speaker:control is increasingly being surrendered
Speaker:from marketer to consumer, right? And we
Speaker:began to see that a lot with the
Speaker:emergence of the internet, especially
Speaker:with social media. And it's continuing
Speaker:now with a lot of marketing tactics such
Speaker:as influencer marketing, right? And we
Speaker:talked a lot about the shift from
Speaker:influencers which are a little bit more
Speaker:controlled by marketing versus creators
Speaker:which are much more authentic and real,
Speaker:if you will. And 1 of the things that
Speaker:they all said is, wow, we've come to
Speaker:realize that we need to surrender control
Speaker:to the people who understand, the
Speaker:consumers themselves and to the people,
Speaker:In this case, influencers or creators who
Speaker:know their audiences even better than
Speaker:they do. And that's a real hard thing for
Speaker:marketers to do. They tend to be by
Speaker:nature a little bit more type A and
Speaker:control oriented. But they said, we've
Speaker:noticed the best for us. And these are
Speaker:some of the Fortune 50 even companies
Speaker:that we're talking about that are using
Speaker:influencers saying, you know what, we get
Speaker:out of their way. Yes, we have
Speaker:guidelines, we do manage them. We choose
Speaker:them very, very, very carefully. That's
Speaker:critical, right? You gotta make sure you
Speaker:know who you're aligning with. But once
Speaker:we do, we need to kind of take off the
Speaker:guards and let them do what they do well
Speaker:because they know their followers. They
Speaker:know their audience better than we do.
Speaker:And as long as we help them understand
Speaker:our brand, they can figure out what to do
Speaker:with them. But that's not typical
Speaker:marketing, right? And certainly from when
Speaker:I was starting out, it's a very different
Speaker:mindset.
Speaker:Yeah, because you're too worried about
Speaker:protecting the brand and following the
Speaker:brand guidelines, etc, etc. But I mean,
Speaker:what you've just said there is, it
Speaker:resonates so well and it's so true. They
Speaker:know better than you do.
Speaker:That's why you're hiring them, right?
Speaker:And as you said, it's about making sure
Speaker:that you choose and select the right
Speaker:person. So, fantastic. We could talk a
Speaker:lot more. I did want to get into
Speaker:influencers, but we've run out of time.
Speaker:It's brilliant. Listen, if someone wanted
Speaker:to contact you, Where's the best place to
Speaker:find you? Where do you hang out?
Speaker:Obviously, there's the future ready brand
Speaker:book Where where should we be going to
Speaker:buy the book?
Speaker:So the book it will you can pre-order it
Speaker:now. The book is officially released on
Speaker:May 14th. It is on Amazon it's also on
Speaker:our website, So my company is full surge
Speaker:and my You can email me at m. Duckler MDU
Speaker:CK LER at full surge comm And you can
Speaker:also see the book there and more
Speaker:information about the book and even
Speaker:pre-order there as well Also, feel free
Speaker:to follow me or or reach out to me on
Speaker:linkedin send me an invite. We'd love to
Speaker:hear from you
Speaker:I all of the links and contact details
Speaker:will be in the show notes as well. So if
Speaker:anyone's listening or watching right now,
Speaker:please do check the show notes for all of
Speaker:the contact details. I forgot that it's
Speaker:pre-order because I've already, you've
Speaker:very kindly sent me a pre version, so
Speaker:I've already read it. So, but I've
Speaker:forgotten that it's still not launched,
Speaker:so that's brilliant. So yeah, I would
Speaker:highly advise to get a pre-order in
Speaker:because it's full of fantastic
Speaker:information. Mitch, thank you very much
Speaker:indeed. And if you've been watching or
Speaker:listening, this has been Jonny Ross
Speaker:Fractional CMO. Thanks for joining us and
Speaker:we will look forward to see you all soon.
Speaker:Take care. Cheers Mitch. Thanks for
Speaker:watching!
